Okay now, kids. This is typically a touchy subject but I thought I'd bring it up because it's something I'd find interesting to know. Now here's the topic: What, if anything, do you believe in? Are you religious? If so, is it a typical, common religion or is it something more exotic? If not, what kind of belief system or system of morals do you have? Just thought it'd be interesting to know.
PLEASE don't flame people for their beliefs in this thread. That's not the purpose. This is just to satisfy curiosity.
I, for one, am what some people might call a "moral atheist". I'm not religious (though I'm open to the idea of some kind of afterlife). I've heard some people argue (especially in the newspapers lately) that it is impossible to have a good moral structure without the influence of God. I don't really subscribe to that notion. In my mind, one does not need God to live a wholesome, good life.
Some atheists take their disdain for religion and turn it into a religion of its own. I don't really subscribe to that view. I don't hate religion, I just rely on logic and reason too much to believe in something that just can't be proven. I have a really hard time with blind faith.
Though the one thing I've heard people comment on in the past is that for an atheist, I tend to exclaim things like "Jesus Christ!" when I'm surprised or startled and other such Christian exclamations. I don't really mean anything by them. It's more like I've been conditioned over my life to say those things in those situations, like my parents do.
Well, that's my mish-mashed spiel, now what do YOU believe? Don't be shy now.
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Religion
34 posts • Page 1 of 4 • 1, 2, 3, 4
by Kesslan » 09 Jun 2007, 08:42
Hmm I'm probably somewhat similar to you IK. I mean in my own case I use swearing like Jeasus Christ etc well.. mostly cause A) north america is predominantly christian technically speaking. B) I was raised effectively as a unitarian.
But really when it comes to my own personal belives.. well I like to belive there's some form of afterlife. Otherwise life itself is flat out ultimately pointless in a way but thats a debate for another day.
As to an afterlife I'm.. not sure. I'm not quite sure how reincarnation for example coudl really work etc but what ever.
On the concept of 'god' I suppose in the end I'd have to say I belive it's technicaly possible that there is a god, and if so then arguably actualy more than one. Since if one exists I dont see any logical reason why more than oen couldnt exist and yadda yadda. Though I'd put it more down as a sort of 'state of being' I suppose.
Also as to your point on some people saying without god there would be no morals.. well to those people I'd point otu all the evil done in the name of god(s) that so far seems to far outweigh the good supposedly done by religious foundations. And yes I know there is alot of 'good' done by them too but if you look at it at least so far in my opinion they've done far more harm than good and continue to do so.
Ultimately I have no 'faith' in well.. religions. Ultimately as far as I'm concerned they either start out, or eventually due to size and scope become corrupt.
Yep, that's right corrupt. There's a good reason for the saying 'Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely'. The various faiths based around Christ and the various Muslim beliefs etc I think as two fo the biggest religious groups in the world prove this.
How so?
Well lets look at it this way..
Christans have been behind a great many basically flat out murders of 'witches' 'heretics' etc. Break offs for example in Ireland to this day dont get along and look at how often the christans and prodestants were killing each other.
The Church basically takes in allll this money. A good chunk of it these days is diverted to humanitarian aid, 'spreading the word' etc. But then.. ehh. Wow they sure do use alot of really expensive stain glass, gold and silverware, and influence politics and schooling. Just look at the southern US and this whole 'creationism' and these sort of spin off cults all that's created.
Muslim faith isnt much better in many ways. I think one of the most telling thigns I ever read about it was this one guy who took a journey across Afghanistan by foot about two years before it was invaded. There he met and talked to many of the locals, religious heads etc. In one village he recounts meeting a man who was said to be able to recite the Koran word for word flawlessly from memory. He'd apparently gone to Meca or something like that and he's ultimately considered this great spiritual leader (locally) as a result.
But eh.. he diddnt understand a word of what he was reciting. Oh he coudl spout what he was -told- was the meaning. But he didnt actually know the language the Koran was written in (It's Arabic or something isnt it?). I mean.. how can you be this supposed 'great and knowledgeable person' if you dont even know what your really saying?
And then there's all these extremist groups and all the unrest in africa and the middle east. It's almost entirely all muslim groups clashing with each other and in a few cases other religious groups much as you've had with christianity (and infact still have to this day).
These deeds are no worse than thsoe done by other religions either. I mean at least their not say.. the Aztecs who heavily used human sacrifice and such right?
But it's still ultimately about power in my view. It didnt start that way most likely, but thats what end it's all being twisted to ultimately. My way is the right way, everyone else will convert or die. That's come out of almost every religion I can think of with a few exceptions and most of those execptions are either no longer around, or remain relatively very tiny in the 'big picture' as it were as they dont have massive numbers of 'faithful' or what ever word is appropriate.
It's not something that's going to go away anytime soon either. Potentially never unless so to speak god himself comes and speaks to everyone at once and personally explains 'how things are'. Because unless thats done, unless -everyone- knows exactly what 'god' or who ever/whatever you want to call him/her/it/them.. well..
Then there will allways be some one twisting the truth to suit their own ends.
In the end I'm much more of a 'follow your heart/gut' kinda guy. I belive in what I know, what I have seen, experienced, and what ultimatley I belive to be true as a result of the cumulation of well.. information.
Based on that my views change time to time, but in the end I stay true to myself and my own beliefs, and thats really all that matters to me. Ultimately strive to do the 'right thing'. But those answers are rarely easy.
To take an extreme result. What is better? Sacrifice a few for the good of the many? How many is a few? Is it worth it to sacrifice lets say.. 4 billion souls to eternal ever lasting torment beyond imagination, so that the race could forever live on? Is that a worthy goal in light of the price? What if it was 10 billion? 40 billion? 1 trilion? At what point is the price too high? Can it ever be too high?
No easy answer, no question to take lightly, and ultimately.. perhaps there isnt really a wrong answer. In the end all you can do is try to figgure out such things on your own and sorta hope for the best I guess.
But really when it comes to my own personal belives.. well I like to belive there's some form of afterlife. Otherwise life itself is flat out ultimately pointless in a way but thats a debate for another day.
As to an afterlife I'm.. not sure. I'm not quite sure how reincarnation for example coudl really work etc but what ever.
On the concept of 'god' I suppose in the end I'd have to say I belive it's technicaly possible that there is a god, and if so then arguably actualy more than one. Since if one exists I dont see any logical reason why more than oen couldnt exist and yadda yadda. Though I'd put it more down as a sort of 'state of being' I suppose.
Also as to your point on some people saying without god there would be no morals.. well to those people I'd point otu all the evil done in the name of god(s) that so far seems to far outweigh the good supposedly done by religious foundations. And yes I know there is alot of 'good' done by them too but if you look at it at least so far in my opinion they've done far more harm than good and continue to do so.
Ultimately I have no 'faith' in well.. religions. Ultimately as far as I'm concerned they either start out, or eventually due to size and scope become corrupt.
Yep, that's right corrupt. There's a good reason for the saying 'Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely'. The various faiths based around Christ and the various Muslim beliefs etc I think as two fo the biggest religious groups in the world prove this.
How so?
Well lets look at it this way..
Christans have been behind a great many basically flat out murders of 'witches' 'heretics' etc. Break offs for example in Ireland to this day dont get along and look at how often the christans and prodestants were killing each other.
The Church basically takes in allll this money. A good chunk of it these days is diverted to humanitarian aid, 'spreading the word' etc. But then.. ehh. Wow they sure do use alot of really expensive stain glass, gold and silverware, and influence politics and schooling. Just look at the southern US and this whole 'creationism' and these sort of spin off cults all that's created.
Muslim faith isnt much better in many ways. I think one of the most telling thigns I ever read about it was this one guy who took a journey across Afghanistan by foot about two years before it was invaded. There he met and talked to many of the locals, religious heads etc. In one village he recounts meeting a man who was said to be able to recite the Koran word for word flawlessly from memory. He'd apparently gone to Meca or something like that and he's ultimately considered this great spiritual leader (locally) as a result.
But eh.. he diddnt understand a word of what he was reciting. Oh he coudl spout what he was -told- was the meaning. But he didnt actually know the language the Koran was written in (It's Arabic or something isnt it?). I mean.. how can you be this supposed 'great and knowledgeable person' if you dont even know what your really saying?
And then there's all these extremist groups and all the unrest in africa and the middle east. It's almost entirely all muslim groups clashing with each other and in a few cases other religious groups much as you've had with christianity (and infact still have to this day).
These deeds are no worse than thsoe done by other religions either. I mean at least their not say.. the Aztecs who heavily used human sacrifice and such right?
But it's still ultimately about power in my view. It didnt start that way most likely, but thats what end it's all being twisted to ultimately. My way is the right way, everyone else will convert or die. That's come out of almost every religion I can think of with a few exceptions and most of those execptions are either no longer around, or remain relatively very tiny in the 'big picture' as it were as they dont have massive numbers of 'faithful' or what ever word is appropriate.
It's not something that's going to go away anytime soon either. Potentially never unless so to speak god himself comes and speaks to everyone at once and personally explains 'how things are'. Because unless thats done, unless -everyone- knows exactly what 'god' or who ever/whatever you want to call him/her/it/them.. well..
Then there will allways be some one twisting the truth to suit their own ends.
In the end I'm much more of a 'follow your heart/gut' kinda guy. I belive in what I know, what I have seen, experienced, and what ultimatley I belive to be true as a result of the cumulation of well.. information.
Based on that my views change time to time, but in the end I stay true to myself and my own beliefs, and thats really all that matters to me. Ultimately strive to do the 'right thing'. But those answers are rarely easy.
To take an extreme result. What is better? Sacrifice a few for the good of the many? How many is a few? Is it worth it to sacrifice lets say.. 4 billion souls to eternal ever lasting torment beyond imagination, so that the race could forever live on? Is that a worthy goal in light of the price? What if it was 10 billion? 40 billion? 1 trilion? At what point is the price too high? Can it ever be too high?
No easy answer, no question to take lightly, and ultimately.. perhaps there isnt really a wrong answer. In the end all you can do is try to figgure out such things on your own and sorta hope for the best I guess.
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Kesslan - Posts: 1162
- Joined: 30 Nov 2006, 23:07
by Widontknow » 09 Jun 2007, 12:53
Well, as I have stated before, I am a catholic. Not a very devout catholic, but still a catholic.
Do I believe in an afterlife? To that I can only answer "maybe". I would like for there to be an afterlife, but I acknowledge that there is the possibility that one may not exist.
Do I believe in god? I would have to say yes. Do I believe that such a god exists exactly as Catholic doctrine states? Maybe. I'm not discounting the possibility, but I also don't believe that it is necessarily true.
I think of god, the holy spirit, etc... as a higher moral authority, in a way. The omniscient being to whom you must always hold your actions accountable. That said, my opinion varies when it comes to the church's opinion of gods laws.
Are religions corrupt? Of course. Everything is corrupt in some way. This applies to governments, charities, religions, and furry groups :P. Call it human nature, if you want, but almost all organizations are out to secure their own survival at all costs.
Also, murders and genocides aren't limited to the religious. It just so happens that only religious people use religion as an excuse for murder.
What it all boils down to is that, for me, religion is a motivator to do good and respect others. It is one of many such motivators in my life, so I think of it as a positive force.
In the end, religion is what any given individual makes of it. I make it a positive force in my life, and therefore think of it as a good thing.
Do I believe in an afterlife? To that I can only answer "maybe". I would like for there to be an afterlife, but I acknowledge that there is the possibility that one may not exist.
Do I believe in god? I would have to say yes. Do I believe that such a god exists exactly as Catholic doctrine states? Maybe. I'm not discounting the possibility, but I also don't believe that it is necessarily true.
I think of god, the holy spirit, etc... as a higher moral authority, in a way. The omniscient being to whom you must always hold your actions accountable. That said, my opinion varies when it comes to the church's opinion of gods laws.
Are religions corrupt? Of course. Everything is corrupt in some way. This applies to governments, charities, religions, and furry groups :P. Call it human nature, if you want, but almost all organizations are out to secure their own survival at all costs.
Also, murders and genocides aren't limited to the religious. It just so happens that only religious people use religion as an excuse for murder.
What it all boils down to is that, for me, religion is a motivator to do good and respect others. It is one of many such motivators in my life, so I think of it as a positive force.
In the end, religion is what any given individual makes of it. I make it a positive force in my life, and therefore think of it as a good thing.
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Widontknow - Posts: 664
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by Peacimowen » 11 Jun 2007, 23:41
Officially, I'm a catholic. I've been through the whole 'initiation' stuff. Baptism through to Confirmation.
What I believe though.. I am most certainly NOT catholic. I do not believe in the Christian God at all. (no matter how much I may yell out, just like so many others, "Jesus Christ!!!" or whatever other sacriligious exclamations.
(in fact, an online religion test I once took - admitedly to be taken lightly like any other online test - put Roman Catholic as the least likely religion for me to belong to)
My beliefs lie more towards the pagan, though generally I'd be considered an atheist. I don't practice any religion (except where familly obligation puts me once more in the middle of some Christian ritual - and I say Christian because my grandfather's Ukrainian Orthodox, not RC like my mother and, technically, me), and really don't see myself starting up anytime soon.
What I believe though.. I am most certainly NOT catholic. I do not believe in the Christian God at all. (no matter how much I may yell out, just like so many others, "Jesus Christ!!!" or whatever other sacriligious exclamations.
(in fact, an online religion test I once took - admitedly to be taken lightly like any other online test - put Roman Catholic as the least likely religion for me to belong to)
My beliefs lie more towards the pagan, though generally I'd be considered an atheist. I don't practice any religion (except where familly obligation puts me once more in the middle of some Christian ritual - and I say Christian because my grandfather's Ukrainian Orthodox, not RC like my mother and, technically, me), and really don't see myself starting up anytime soon.
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Peacimowen - Posts: 231
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by Horse Feather » 12 Jun 2007, 10:04
I was Baptized Catholic, but in no way am I even so much as remotely practicing or even deemed 'catholic' anymore. My parents raised both my brother and myself without a set religion. They left it up to us to find a path we were comfortable with. My mom's Mormon (non practicing) and my father is Catholic (ditto), but we never went to church except for a few times that I can still count on my hand. As for the /rest/ of my family though...that's a different story. ;)
When I was around 11-12 years old, I suddenly got this inclination to become Catholic. I don't know why, still to this day, but my grandmother was overjoyed when I told her. Several years down the road, I began to disagree with a lot of what Catholicism and even Christianity stood for. There's some good things in both, but I felt...confined and trapped.
Now, I consider myself more Pagan then anything. I don't believe in a Hell and I don't believe in one God...not at least in the typical biblical sense. I don't pray, but I do a lot of energy work.
These days though, I love to read into religions or hear other people's opinions or insights on them. I tend to pick and choose various traits from one or another and kind of mesh them all together. I don't practice just one and one religion only, except for maybe Paganism now and then. Anyone who's seen my room can pretty much guess right off the bat what my main religious preference is. ;)
I don't see one religion better over another. Each has it's own faults (some worse then others) and some have been wrongly slandered to the point it's hard to really find what it honestly does stand for (i.e. Satanism - not quite what you think, but not exactly a good one still...) but I try anyways to gather as much facts as possible (and try to remember it all too...lol).
I'm pretty tolerant of other people's religions too. The only time I'll ever get upset over it is if the person (or people) in question attempt to force it down my throat or openly attack my own beliefs. I'm so very, very tired of hearing how much of a sinner I am and how I'm doomed to the fiery pits of Hell or how I'm just a bad person in general cause I don't believe in the Big Guy. I won't agree with everything you believe in either, I admit that. I'm open to debate (in a friendly way!) or discuss it, but I'm not going to cut you down and call you a horrible person.
That...pretty much sums things up. When it comes to religion, I guess you can say I'm making my own belief system up built on various other religions still in place. ;)
When I was around 11-12 years old, I suddenly got this inclination to become Catholic. I don't know why, still to this day, but my grandmother was overjoyed when I told her. Several years down the road, I began to disagree with a lot of what Catholicism and even Christianity stood for. There's some good things in both, but I felt...confined and trapped.
Now, I consider myself more Pagan then anything. I don't believe in a Hell and I don't believe in one God...not at least in the typical biblical sense. I don't pray, but I do a lot of energy work.
These days though, I love to read into religions or hear other people's opinions or insights on them. I tend to pick and choose various traits from one or another and kind of mesh them all together. I don't practice just one and one religion only, except for maybe Paganism now and then. Anyone who's seen my room can pretty much guess right off the bat what my main religious preference is. ;)
I don't see one religion better over another. Each has it's own faults (some worse then others) and some have been wrongly slandered to the point it's hard to really find what it honestly does stand for (i.e. Satanism - not quite what you think, but not exactly a good one still...) but I try anyways to gather as much facts as possible (and try to remember it all too...lol).
I'm pretty tolerant of other people's religions too. The only time I'll ever get upset over it is if the person (or people) in question attempt to force it down my throat or openly attack my own beliefs. I'm so very, very tired of hearing how much of a sinner I am and how I'm doomed to the fiery pits of Hell or how I'm just a bad person in general cause I don't believe in the Big Guy. I won't agree with everything you believe in either, I admit that. I'm open to debate (in a friendly way!) or discuss it, but I'm not going to cut you down and call you a horrible person.
That...pretty much sums things up. When it comes to religion, I guess you can say I'm making my own belief system up built on various other religions still in place. ;)
~Horse Feathers (aka Zeralia or Verto Mihi)
LJ: http://horsefeather.livejournal.com
DA: http://zeralia.deviantart.com
FA: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/horsefeather/
FAC: http://www.fanart-central.net/profile-VertoMihi.php
LJ: http://horsefeather.livejournal.com
DA: http://zeralia.deviantart.com
FA: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/horsefeather/
FAC: http://www.fanart-central.net/profile-VertoMihi.php
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Horse Feather - Posts: 84
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by Pooshie » 12 Jun 2007, 19:08
I'm atheist, born and raised.
The only thing that comes remotely close to a belief for me is what heaven and hell are. I believe that when you die, the way you feel about your life, based on what you think is right and wrong, floods your mind. And that will make your last seconds on earth either enjoyable or terrible. And for me, the worst thing that could happen is to finish my life on a bad note.
The only thing that comes remotely close to a belief for me is what heaven and hell are. I believe that when you die, the way you feel about your life, based on what you think is right and wrong, floods your mind. And that will make your last seconds on earth either enjoyable or terrible. And for me, the worst thing that could happen is to finish my life on a bad note.
Pooshie! The awesome husky!
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Pooshie - Lieutenant-Commander Slobberbottom
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by Choubliss » 13 Jun 2007, 00:02
When i was born, I wasn't baptized or anything, my mom doesn't follow a religion, and i didn't either, mainly cause i was an only child i followed my mom all the time.
As i got older, with my lacking knowledge of any religion what so ever, I met Breezy, who is Christian, and so i started learning some christian values through her, because i'd go to church with her Family.
as for myself though, I don't see myself classified as a religion, though my family's religion is Jehovah Witness (sp?) Which is something my mom tried getting out of, becasue she didn't respect the religion, so i wasn't raised with that either.
Religious beliefs...well, I personally can't say i belife in god or don't. It's something that i've been taught both ways so much that i listen more then tell. (even though i just did a whole schpeel just now)
As i got older, with my lacking knowledge of any religion what so ever, I met Breezy, who is Christian, and so i started learning some christian values through her, because i'd go to church with her Family.
as for myself though, I don't see myself classified as a religion, though my family's religion is Jehovah Witness (sp?) Which is something my mom tried getting out of, becasue she didn't respect the religion, so i wasn't raised with that either.
Religious beliefs...well, I personally can't say i belife in god or don't. It's something that i've been taught both ways so much that i listen more then tell. (even though i just did a whole schpeel just now)
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Choubliss - Posts: 271
- Joined: 05 Mar 2007, 14:43
by Ms. Koi » 23 Jun 2007, 10:35
I'm officially baptised Catholic, but there is a lot of stuff I can't believe. I'm against baptising babies, as well as against any other form of initiating people who are unable to make a choice into a religion.
I consider myself agnostic because although we can theorize as much as we like, we have no way of knowing one way or another what comes after death or what created the universe. I also feel that this is not within our knowledge, as the universe is too large and complicated for any one person to understand completely.
I do have my set of theories, even though I know I very well could be wrong. I just formed them out of my life experiences. I think that within every living thing is an unknowable essence or power ("spirits", I sometimes say, although this may not describe it properly) which gives them life. These spirits are merely occupying forms. Their energy can often be felt on non-living things they have come into comtact with. We are able to feel this energy if we focus and try.
Spirits do not disappear upon death of the bodies they occupy. They simply occupy another, and when they reach the highest level of spiritual awareness, peace, and harmony; they return to the unseen and unknowable place from which they came. Some spirits which feel they have deeds they did not complete in their previous bodies may wander around, and be visable to only some people (ghosts).
"God" is an unseen and unknowable energy which we can't know or understand, and all of the deities people believe in are manifestations of this. How we interpret it is based upon our life experiences, upbringing, and culture.
I consider myself agnostic because although we can theorize as much as we like, we have no way of knowing one way or another what comes after death or what created the universe. I also feel that this is not within our knowledge, as the universe is too large and complicated for any one person to understand completely.
I do have my set of theories, even though I know I very well could be wrong. I just formed them out of my life experiences. I think that within every living thing is an unknowable essence or power ("spirits", I sometimes say, although this may not describe it properly) which gives them life. These spirits are merely occupying forms. Their energy can often be felt on non-living things they have come into comtact with. We are able to feel this energy if we focus and try.
Spirits do not disappear upon death of the bodies they occupy. They simply occupy another, and when they reach the highest level of spiritual awareness, peace, and harmony; they return to the unseen and unknowable place from which they came. Some spirits which feel they have deeds they did not complete in their previous bodies may wander around, and be visable to only some people (ghosts).
"God" is an unseen and unknowable energy which we can't know or understand, and all of the deities people believe in are manifestations of this. How we interpret it is based upon our life experiences, upbringing, and culture.
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Ms. Koi - Posts: 123
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- Location: Ottawa/Nepean
by Breeze » 27 Aug 2007, 01:53
Firstly, I think it is important for people to understand that religion is your current state of belief or for some, dibelief. So if you were born a catholic, but aren't anymore, or your family was from a united church, but you never went then that isn't what you are.
Me, I am a christian. Not born and raised, but born again ;) I grew up in a predominantly pagan home, which eventually became a christian home. I think that for me personally, that change was very important for me as a person to not have all these twisted values before me from an odd Irish Catholic and a pagan center. I managed to get very confused until I was eight.
I have struggled with my faith like many people, but now I know for sure where my heart stands. If anyone ever has any questions regarding christianity let me know :) Glad to help you out in anyway I can.
P.S I am a baptist christian, not the crazy southern kind but the normal kind :P
Me, I am a christian. Not born and raised, but born again ;) I grew up in a predominantly pagan home, which eventually became a christian home. I think that for me personally, that change was very important for me as a person to not have all these twisted values before me from an odd Irish Catholic and a pagan center. I managed to get very confused until I was eight.
I have struggled with my faith like many people, but now I know for sure where my heart stands. If anyone ever has any questions regarding christianity let me know :) Glad to help you out in anyway I can.
P.S I am a baptist christian, not the crazy southern kind but the normal kind :P
If life gives you lemons... make orange juice
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Breeze - Posts: 9
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- Location: Kanata Ont
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